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| Lets Talk Jointer Planes http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5139 |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:19 am ] |
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Ok so I'm going to be getting a new Jointer plane (I've always used a power jointer for tops and backs, but I'm expanding my horizons) So lets look at the contestants All #7 style. All prices are apx.: Lie Nielsen: Obviously a sweet plane I'm sure, looks great. Sole is ground to .001 across the length. Price is $400 Kunz: Looks solid. I have a few of their spokeshaves and they are nice. Sold is ground to .003 across the length. Price is $149 Clifton: Also a top notch one of course. They make great tools. Sole is .0015 across the length. Price is $365 Anant: Not sure about this one. I may just be in the mode of if it's cheap it must be cheap which I know is not always the case. Can't find out what the soles are ground to which makes me think it's not real flat to begin with. Price : $75 Veritas: I know thier tools to be great quality, and this looks like a nice plane too, although thier site does not mention how flat the sole is to start. Price is: $225 Other contenders? I want a metal plane not a wood one (don't ask me why cause I don't know..) suggestions? Thoughts? |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:26 am ] |
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found a review of the Veritas: http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl? dir=reviews&file=articles_731.shtml |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:31 am ] |
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Stanly baily #7  Oh!!  a new plane 
The reviews I have read rate the Anant good value but will need work prior to use. The Kunz were rated very good value with some work needed prior to use, same with Veritas. All that said at $75 I would be tempted to to true one up and give it a wherl. Same with the Kunz. However if I wanted a plane to work great straight out of the box, no doubt I would go with Lie Nielsen |
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| Author: | dgalas [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:31 am ] |
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It is a chunk of money, but my Lie-Nielsen #4 is a joy to use every time I pick it up and it's purchase I have never regretted. Do you need a #7 for joining plates? Seems a little long. I have gotten great results with #5 and #4 planes. I've used my Bailey #6 a few times but even it seems a bit unwieldy at times for this operation. Of course there is always the Lie-Nielsen #9, which I've always thought would be the ultimate dedicated top and back jointing plane! Cheers, -Dave P.S. I also have a number of old Stanley and Sargent planes that can be made to perform BEAUTIFULLY if you are willing to put in the elbow grease to tune them. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:52 am ] |
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A jointer will make the task easer and truer because of the lengh of the sole plate. I have done it with a #5 and a #7 # 7 is much better for the task |
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| Author: | mikev [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:59 am ] |
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I say go to ebay,,, I got a #7 stanley in great shape for about $30. It was not a Bedrock, which will cost $100 ish but I did not know as much about planes then. the blade needed sharpening and the bottom trueing, but I spent an hour and it works great. .002" shavings easily. there are a lot of them for sale, just bid on the nice ones, but don't look for perfect decals and boxes that stuff just jacks the price up for the collectors. I also got a #4 for about the same price. |
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| Author: | SimonF [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:07 am ] |
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I agree with Michael, the longer the better. Also, you get what you pay for...Lie Nielson makes awesome planes. You might also want to check out these guys...I have a small luthiers plane coming to me in a week or so - their planes are supposed to be as high-end as you can get. And he will build you exactly what you want - bed angle, etc... http://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:26 am ] |
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I took the cheap route. I bought the Anant jointer plane. The sole needed a lot of work to get it smooth but it shines like a mirror now. Their blades suck so I got a Hock blade for $35. It now works as well as I need and most importantly, it gets the jointing job done perfectly. I have 4 Anant planes...I used a lot of sandpaper and bicep power to get them tuned, but I saved a lot of money for other tools and supplies. The Hock blades are fantastic and that's what really makes the difference. |
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| Author: | Daniel M [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:48 am ] |
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I have an ancient 22" Bailey which I trued up a few years ago. ($20.00 in a second hand store.) But... since I bought a Lie Nielson 5 1/2, I use it for jointing. From frustrating to FUN! I look forward to jointing plates now. I use it (along with a shooting board) to taper fingerboards as well. It's fast & does an immaculate job. The old Bailey would probably be just as good if I bought it a Hock blade, but I find the length of the 5 1/2 is perfect, & I don't need a longer plane to get results. Just another 2 cents worth. |
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| Author: | Chas Freeborn [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:16 am ] |
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Here's a sample of my stable: In the foreground is a new(er- 1950's or so) #3 that is great for guitar work (I've got big hands so a small plane is easier to handle than a block plane). Then is my trusty 605 (Bedrock #5) then a 605 1/2, then the Grand Damme 608 (#8 Bedrock). I've also got a shooting plane and board that I plan to adapt to top/back jonting. -C 
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:20 am ] |
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Ihave an old Milers falls no. 22 jointer, but the sole isnt dead flat. I have been using a Veritas low angle smoother (about 11 inch sole) the last few weeks, blade is ground to 42 degrees, so the attack angle is 54, and after 4 or 5 passes the top is dead on for gluing up in the string and wedges jig. I love veritas stuff (also have the block plane set up the same way) and its close to home as well. |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:32 am ] |
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Don't forget, it's not just the sole you need to worry about--it's the fit and finish of the whole tool. And, of course, as has been mentioned, you'll want to replace the blade on the cheaper planes; and that's in addition to all the time/elbow-grease needed to make 'em work. I've got a couple of Lie-Nielsens, and they work very well. I think that, if you can come up with the money, one of the premium brands is your best bet. They're lifetime tools. |
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| Author: | Kim [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:20 am ] |
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John I consider a No6 or 7 Bailey @ app $50.00, a hock blade if you must @ $35.00, and few hours work on the set up is all you need. If you can't see light, it's well jointed, no matter how much you did not spend. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:25 am ] |
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I have 4, 5, 6,and 7 ebay Stanley's - love em all, and have them tuned pretty well. I do question whether you need a 7 to joint tops and backs - the plane is longer then the surface being jointed. I've had no trouble doing it with a 5. JK |
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| Author: | RichB [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:36 am ] |
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After watching Robbie O'Brien use a lengthy jointer/plane to join his tops & backs in his instructional video, I was convinced that this was the way to go. Looked like an 'old school' method. I tried using my little benchtop jointer, but it just wouldn't cut a perfect line. I kept seeing daylight peek through the seam. So, then I tried the old Stanley/Bailey #7 that I had won in a BIN auction on ebay. It had been all reconditioned and was just about ready to be put into use. I took a bit of time to get the hang of it, but after some fine tuning, it worked like a charm. Here it is: 
After that, I put it on a shooting board w/ sandpaper glued to a level, and it came out just right. Since then, I've gotten a couple more Bailey #5's on ebay, and have also put my Dad's #4 and his 60 1/2 into good use. |
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| Author: | Kim [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:53 am ] |
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Your on the money Jim, I agree that for tops and backs a No5 is more than adequate, that is all that Michael McClain uses. I slipped the 7 in my reply for diplomatic reasons. Most do tend to think that as the No7 is called a jointing plane, it is best for all jointing. If you are talking very long boards, this is true, but when working with shorter length, you reach a point of diminished returns when using the "bigger is better" theory. The reduced weight that a No5 or 6 offers brings with it more control yet still offers a nice long sole to "span the valleys". As for a Hock Blade, I really don't see the need. I just can't see that a 1/4" edge of any wood offers up enough resistance to a keen edge on a standard blade to cause chatter. For smoothing, yes, but jointing I think it is over-kill. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | Miketobey [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:37 am ] |
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I love using handplanes. I like looking at good woodplanes. I own "too many"(hopefully my GF won't see this). For jointing guitar tops,backs, and sides a # 6 foreplane is about ideal.Long register at the toe-overall length about the same as the item being jointed and nice mass for a steady cut. I have a 606 with Hock iron and capiron. While there isn't much chatter planing these thin woods to start with, A high carbon Hock iron hones up to razor sharp with a tactile experience that is almost perverse. And, if one ever gets the urge to do some cabinet work, the tool will be up to any task. A well tuned Bailey type will do just as well.However, I would have to say that I haven't seen many really decent $30.00 Baileys on ebay unless you don't mind pits and cracked/chipped knobs and totes.Maybe some have been "sniped" at 1:30 am auction end.For the last week I have had trouble stopping myself from buying a LN 7 even though I don't need it. BUT, the most versatile plane I have in my arsenal is the LN bevel up jack plane. I have three irons-std, 25, 40 microbeveled and the toothed. I think it might be your perfect all purpose plane and costs less than LN's Bedrock styles. If you want a nice Bailey #7 with stock irons and honed up razor sharp, PM me, I have an extra. |
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| Author: | Iplaytheoldies [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:24 pm ] |
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This is one area I have had quite a bit of experience with. If price is not an issue, I can second three of your suggestions, and possibly limit out some as well. My top three. St James Bay Tool Co. These are great heavy planes, true flat soles, precise adjustments, and they aren't a large company so quality control is always great. The only cons to these planes is the initial investment, they are costly. Eventually they will earn their value back and more. Lie Nieson. Their planes are basically the old stanley baileys built better. True soles, great feel, great craftsmanship, requires very little honing when new. Veritas. This is by far the cheapest of my top three but every bit as good as a Lie Nielson. They use their own design which has no flaws that I can see. These also require very little honing when new. Buy the St. James if you can afford it. It's a toss up between the veritas and Lie Nielson as far as performance so I would go with veritas because of price. Clifton. I bought an Anniversary model clifton 4 1/2 bench plane for $300 a few years ago. The quality was great on all adjustments but the sole was not true. Maybe this was a fluke, but none the less I had to get it fixed. After the sole grind it felt like the Lie nielson, but I would hesitate buying another one. I sold this on Ebay a while back and recouped $230 back. Fine woodworking had an issue out that you can still find in stores that is their annual tool review issue. It has reviews of bench planes from quite a few manufacturers, you may want to pick that up. As for the brands you were deciding on that I didn't mention, most will require some heavy honing and possibly slight modification for optimum performance. Hope this helps out. BTW, Thanks for the great videos, they are a great value and I highly recommend them. |
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| Author: | Brook Moore [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:57 am ] |
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I think that any well sharpened plane of jack size or better will do fine for joining two thin boards, as long as the sole is flat. The sides and bottom do not have to be ground to an absolutely perfect 90 degrees, since the bookmatched shooting process compensates for any minor irregularity. (That is not to say I would not want them to be square anyway.) The LV Veritas bevel-Up Jointer plane does not appear to have its sides ground flat however, so it is out of contention here. The one criteria is the flat sole. Old or new, if the sole is not flat, you will spend a fair amount of time making it so, and that is either tedious or fun, depending on your personality. Personally, I would like the LV Veritas low angle Jack with the optional blades, but my old Miller's Falls jack does a perfect job. |
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| Author: | Bob Steidl [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:09 am ] |
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I have several Lee Valley planes and all of them are superb tools, especially for the money. Stand-up company too. |
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| Author: | Andy Zimmerman [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:35 am ] |
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I too use a LN.#5 Andy |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:50 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Miketobey] If you want a nice Bailey #7 with stock irons and honed up razor sharp, PM me, I have an extra. [/QUOTE] Your too kind Mike! You just saved me some money now (although this may lead to an addiction later) so I can maybe buy that LN Bronze 102 plane I've been eyeing for a long time.... |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:53 am ] |
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[QUOTE=BrookM]The LV Veritas bevel-Up Jointer plane does not appear to have its sides ground flat however, so it is out of contention here. [/QUOTE] Thanks or noticing that. I was thinking seriously about this one yesterday. Maybe I'll just save up some dough and get the veritas #6...oh no..I'm already going down that slippery slope of tool addiction...oh heck I went down that slope years ago..I'm wallowing in the bliss of cold steel now! |
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| Author: | Brook Moore [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:30 am ] |
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Probably the mass of the #6 would be more of a benefit than the extra length. I tend to agree with those who think the 7 is overkill for this purpose, but a 6 may be the best of both worlds. |
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